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Most people know me as a marketer. Newsletters, growth, ads, seo, copywriting, audience building, distribution.. that’s the stuff I talk about most.

But here’s something a lot of people don’t realize: I’ve actually spent a huge amount of time studying sales. I’ve invested tens of thousands into sales trainings for myself, read the books, regularly analyze my sales calls, and spent countless hours learning how to run high-conversion sales conversations.

And the reason is simple: not all sales is marketing, but all marketing is sales. Marketing is really just 1-on-1 sales calls at scale. If you want to become a better marketer, founder, or operator, it helps a lot to understand how real sales conversations work. (No, I’m not about to pitch you a sales course haha)

Recently, I went on a podcast and the host, Justin Moore, picked up on this pretty quickly. At one point he said something like, “You seem like someone who has studied sales pretty seriously.” Then he asked me to do something I wasn’t expecting: a live role-play sales call on the show. He pretended to be a potential advertiser for this very newsletter, and I had sell him.

Now to be clear, that call was far from perfect. When I watched it back, I noticed a few things I should have done differently and a couple of places where I could definitely improve. But the breakdown afterward highlighted something interesting: most people have never actually studied sales. They haven’t learned the frameworks, practiced the questions, or thought about how to structure a conversation… let alone, what I consider to be the most important part, how to properly receive answers to questions and transition that into subconscious pitching while transitioning to the next question.

There were five clear takeaways that came out of that role play that I think any entrepreneur, marketer, or operator can learn from:

Takeaway #1: Start the call like a consultant, not a seller.
One of the first things Justin pointed out was how quickly the conversation shifted away from talking about me and toward understanding the buyer. Instead of pitching the newsletter or explaining pricing, I immediately started asking questions about their product, their acquisition channels, and how they currently get customers. That changes the tone of the conversation immediately.

🏆 The best sales calls don’t feel like presentations; they feel like diagnoses. When you understand the business first, you can propose the right solution instead of guessing.

Takeaway #2: Ask the questions most people are afraid to ask.
Another thing Justin called out was that I wasn’t shy about digging into the numbers. We talked about acquisition channels, CPC expectations, conversion rates, and customer value.

A lot of people avoid these questions because they’re worried about overstepping, but if you don’t understand the economics of the business, you can’t actually help them. And if someone doesn’t want to answer, they’ll tell you. But most of the time they will share, and those answers give you the information you need to craft a much stronger offer.

Takeaways #3: Confidence matters more than people realize.
Justin also mentioned the overall tone of the conversation. It wasn’t pushy or aggressive, just calm and confident. That matters because when someone is considering spending real money with you, they’re not just evaluating the offer. They’re asking themselves whether you know what you’re doing and whether this decision will make them look smart internally. Confidence signals experience, and experience reduces perceived risk.

There were two other takeaways from the role play that I think are just as powerful, including one about how using relevant case studies can instantly build trust, and another about why you should think about offers as solutions, not just products.

If you want to see those two lessons (or wanna watch me conduct a sales call and email me back roasting my skills), check out the episode here.

I've been lucky enough to be a guest on dozens of podcasts, and no joke, I think this is one of my top three performances ever. I believe it’s your time. Check it out here!

Best,
Marketing Max

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That’s it for this week!​

Thanks for being a part of my journey :)

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